Harding Lemay Dead at 96

Daytime Emmy winning writer Harding Lemay died peacefully on May 26. He was 96.

Lemay was born into rural poverty on March 16, 1922, near his mother's St. Regis Mohawk Indian reservation in North Bangor, New York. The fifth of thirteen children, he escaped his parents' alcoholism and his father's suicide by running away to New York City at age 17, finding early refuge at the famous Brace Memorial Newsboys' Home.

The Brace Home gave them a roof, food, and even provided them with job placement so they could earn a salary and improve their lot in life. He worked in a library, returning books to the shelves, and met a librarian who assigned him a classic book a week to read. She would discuss the book with him. This was like having a private tutor. He also worked for a stationer delivering packages. But he was determined to become an actor. As luck would have it, he was invited to attend a party where he met the brilliant Broadway star, Pauline Lord, who just happened to be a Trustee of the Neighborhood Playhouse. Through her recommendation he received a full scholarship without an audition. After three months at the Playhouse he was drafted and served the next four years in the army, eventually in Germany. When he returned, he completed his training at the Playhouse on the G. I. Bill. His classmates included wonderful actresses like Marian Seldes, Barbara Baxley, and Anne Meacham (whom he later cast as Louise Goddard in Another World). It was while he was on a forty week tour as Jack in "The Importance of Being Earnest" that he realized he wasn't a very good actor and began writing plays. That was his true calling.

Today in Soap Opera History (March 16)

1971: DS' Bramwell was distraught over losing Daphne.
1984: RH's Maeve and Johnny received a donation.
1990: GH's Jerry and "Duke" shot each other.
2001: OLTL's Blair slipped off the Palace Hotel roof.

"Whoever wishes to foresee the future must consult the past; for human events ever resemble those of preceding times. This arises from the fact that they are produced by men who ever have been, and ever shall be, animated by the same passions, and thus they necessarily have the same results."
― Machiavelli

"Today in Soap Opera History" is a collection of the most memorable, interesting and influential events in the history of scripted, serialized programs. From birthdays and anniversaries to scandals and controversies, every day this column celebrates the soap opera in American culture.

On this date in...

1942: Irna Phillips' radio soap opera The Guiding Light returned to NBC Radio. After GL was canceled by sponsor Procter & Gamble (last airing on December 26, 1941), listeners sent over 75,000 letters in protest, leading General Mills to pick up the show 11 weeks later.  GL was canceled again on November 29, 1946, but returned again on June 2, 1947, this time on CBS Radio and once again sponsored by P&G.

1970: On Another World, Steve Frame (George Reinholt) flirted with Bernice Robinson (Janis Young) but she wanted to keep things strictly business between the two of them. Meanwhile, Rafe Carter (Phil Sterling) offered Sam Lucas (Jordan Charney) a junior partnership and offered to show him around Somerset.

Today in Soap Opera History (March 16)

1971: DS' Bramwell was distraught over the prospect of losing
Daphne. 1984: RH's Maeve and Johnny received a donation
from the community.  1990: GH's Jerry and "Duke" shot each
other. 2001: OLTL's Blair slipped off the Palace Hotel roof.

"All true histories contain instruction; though, in some, the treasure may be hard to find, and when found, so trivial in quantity that the dry, shrivelled kernel scarcely compensates for the trouble of cracking the nut."
― Anne Brontë in "Agnes Grey"

"Today in Soap Opera History" is a collection of the most memorable, interesting and influential events in the history of scripted, serialized programs. From birthdays and anniversaries to scandals and controversies, every day this column celebrates the soap opera in American culture.

On this date in...

1942: Irna Phillips' radio soap opera The Guiding Light returned to NBC Radio. After GL was canceled by sponsor Procter & Gamble (last airing on December 26, 1941), listeners sent over 75,000 letters in protest, leading General Mills to pick up the show 11 weeks later.  GL was canceled again on November 29, 1946, but returned again on June 2, 1947, this time on CBS Radio and once again sponsored by P&G.

1970: On Another World, Steve Frame (George Reinholt) flirted with Bernice Robinson (Janis Young) but she wanted to keep things strictly business between the two of them. Meanwhile, Rafe Carter (Phil Sterling) offered Sam Lucas (Jordan Charney) a junior partnership and offered to show him around Somerset.

FLASHBACK: Revealed! Serial Writers' Secrets (Part 1)

Revealed! Serial Writers' Secrets

The Soap Box
Vol. V No. 9 September 1979
by Linda Susman

Like parents raising their offspring, soap opera writers have the awesome responsibility of creating and nurturing their show's characters and personality so that when it goes out into the world of daytime television, audiences will like it enough to become loyal friends.

Unlike a book, play or film that builds towards its conclusion with a prescribed set of circumstances in a specific period of time, the nature of the soap's continuing format puts it on a different plane. Henry Slesar, Edge of Night's super-sleuth, notes that "the key word in a soap is 'organic.' It has its own inner growth, and it changes because of the nature of the ingredients. Watching for change makes a soap more exciting and unique."

Behind that uniqueness, the philosophy and outlook of the writers provide the framework within which characters come to life and storylines achieve validity. For Edge, Slesar says, the personality is "suspense. We are definitely more related to the mystery magazine than to the confession magazine. We have a harder edge than most soaps because we are more plot-oriented. We must have the element of surprise and suspense that comes from very careful story planning." Slesar adds that his show is not without its share of inter-relationships. "There's no way of avoiding them--they are at the core of drama."

Today in Soap Opera History (March 16)

1971: DS' Bramwell was distraught over the prospect of losing
Daphne. 1984: RH's Maeve and Johnny received a donation
from the community.  1990: GH's Jerry and "Duke" shot each
other. 2001: OLTL's Blair slipped off the Palace Hotel roof.

"The present contains nothing more than the past, and what is found in the effect is already in the cause."
― Henri Louis Bergson

"Today in Soap Opera History" is a collection of the most memorable, interesting and influential events in the history of scripted, serialized programs. From birthdays and anniversaries to scandals and controversies, every day this column celebrates the soap opera in American culture.

On this date in...

1942: Irna Phillips' radio soap opera The Guiding Light returned to NBC Radio. After GL was canceled by sponsor Procter & Gamble (last airing on December 26, 1941), listeners sent over 75,000 letters in protest, leading General Mills to pick up the show 11 weeks later.  GL was canceled again on November 29, 1946, but returned again on June 2, 1947, this time on CBS Radio and once again sponsored by P&G.

1970: On Another World, Steve Frame (George Reinholt) flirted with Bernice Robinson (Janis Young) but she wanted to keep things strictly business between the two of them. Meanwhile, Rafe Carter (Phil Sterling) offered Sam Lucas (Jordan Charney) a junior partnership and offered to show him around Somerset.

Benefit Reading for New Harding Lemay Play 'The Oakland Sisters' Set for February 28 & 29

"The Oakland Sisters," a new play by Emmy-winning Another World writer Harding Lemay, will get intimate New York reading. Stageplays Theatre Company will present the February 28 and 29 benefit readings that will be directed by Tom Ferriter.

The new play is characterized as a “family drama about four sisters bound by love and dependence upon each other. Upon the death of their father, the sisters inherit equal shares in the family timber business. When the youngest sister marries a French Canadian Catholic, her husband is rejected by the domineering oldest sister­—whose irrational devotion to her younger sister leads to the destruction of the marriage and a custody battle over her children. The two middle sisters must choose whom to defend and whom to abandon.”

The cast will include Elizabeth Stiles, Ben McHugh, Aubrey Mae Davis, Chandon Jones, Kerry McGann, Andrew David Rabensteine and Andrew Gelles. Maureen Van Trease provides accompaniment.

Having written for television since 1968, Harding “Pete” Lemay is former head writer for the NBC daytime serial Another World, writer for Guiding Light, story consultant for One Life to Live, and the creator and head writer of the serial Lovers and Friends. Plays written for the stage include "Look At Any Man," "The Little Birds Fly," "The Joslyn Circle, Return Upriver," "From A Dark Land," "The Death of Eagles," "How He Became A Writer," "The Off Season" (all originally produced at New Dramatists), and "Escape Route." "From A Dark Land" received its European premiere at the National Theatre of Romania –Craiova, in a co-production with Stageplays Theatre Company. His later plays include "Interior Landscape," "A Far Far Better World," and "In the Eye of Heaven," along with "Scrutiny," "The First Born," and "The Heir Apparent" (all originally presented by Stageplays). A two-time Emmy Award winner (Outstanding Writing – Another World and Guiding Light), Pete has also written the original television dramas They and Whose Life? (both produced on NBC). He is the author of "Inside Looking Out" (Harper’s Magazine Press; National Book Award Nomination – Biography), and "Eight Years In Another World" (Atheneum). Pete Lemay currently conducts classes in drama and fiction at the New School's Institute for Retired Professionals.

Performances are February 28 at 7 PM and February 29 at 7:30 PM at Theater at St. Jean, which is located at Lexington Avenue and 76th Street in Manhattan. For more information, visit Stageplaystheatre.com.

FLASHBACK: Revealed! Serial Writers' Secrets (Part 3 of 3)

Revealed! Serial Writers' Secrets

The Soap Box
Vol. V No. 9 September 1979
by Linda Susman

(continued from Part 2)

While Slesar doesn't specify "repition," he notes that, "after 11 years, you find yourself using story elements you said you'd never use, things that are dictated by logic. I always said I'd never bring anyone back from the dead; but when Maeve McGuire (ex-Nicole Drake) wanted to come back to the show, I managed to turn it into a good storyline." Slesar says he'd "write about anything interesting and entertaining" and likes to avoid "cliche subjects."

Part of the individuality of each soap lies in the names of its characters. Slesar feels that "if you are going to introduce a character with a personality, the name should be appropriate so it helps the audience define the person." For 'Raven,' Slesar envisioned a flashy, dark-haired dangerous kind of woman; young, with as yet unsharpened claws--the predatory bird. He knew a 'Draper' many years ago, who was "a dashing, boyish personality. The name also connotes sartorial splendor and, coincidentally, so does Tony Craig, who plays the part." 'Steve Guthrie's masculine, with a western sound, while 'Brandy Henderson' was to be a memorable woman, feminine yet strong. Since she was an attorney, Slesar named her after Justice Brandies.

FLASHBACK: Revealed! Serial Writers' Secrets (Part 2)

Revealed! Serial Writers' Secrets

The Soap Box
Vol. V No. 9 September 1979
by Linda Susman

(continued from Part 1)

Labine and Mayer's "long-term" projection is from three or four months to a year, since Mayer says, "you have to know where the characters will be a year from now. It's like a Victorian novel. The stories have to intertwine." He says that at the beginning, "we were much more cerebral. We were taking everything apart to find out why, how. Now, we're a little less formal. We talk story, plan together, throw ideas back and forth. We're always looking for good scenes, not mechanical ones, but dramatic scenes between people. Some scenes, of course, are obligatory, but we work for a certain kind of structure. Each segment is a little one-act play," he adds.

In addition to interview sessions with female viewers--to get a pulse on reaction to storylines and characters--Mayer says the show's actors are encouraged to have input. "One of our major players called up," he recalls as an example, "and he didn't like something in the story. He was right. We tore up 40 scripts--wrote 10 or 15 scenes--and got our script writers to do the same."

Today in Soap Opera History (March 16)

1971: DS' Bramwell was distraught over the prospect of losing
Daphne. 1984: RH's Maeve and Johnny received a donation
from the community.  1990: GH's Jerry and "Duke" shot each
other. 2001: OLTL's Blair slipped off the Palace Hotel roof.

"Mankind are so much the same, in all times and places, that history informs us of nothing new or strange in this particular. Its chief use is only to discover the constant and universal principles of human nature."
― David Hume

"Today in Soap Opera History" is a collection of the most memorable, interesting and influential events in the history of scripted, serialized programs. From birthdays and anniversaries to Scandals and controversies, every day this column celebrates the soap opera in American culture.

On this date in...

1942: Irna Phillips' radio soap opera THE GUIDING LIGHT returned to NBC Radio.  After GL was canceled by sponsor Procter & Gamble (last airing on December 26, 1941), listeners sent over 75,000 letters in protest, leading General Mills to pick up the show 11 weeks later.  GL was canceled again on November 29, 1946, but returned again on June 2, 1947, this time on CBS Radio and once again sponsored by P&G.

1970: On ANOTHER WORLD, Steve Frame (George Reinholt) flirted with Bernice Robinson (Janis Young) but she wanted to keep things strictly business between the two of them. Meanwhile, Rafe Carter (Phil Sterling) offered Sam Lucas (Jordan Charney) a junior partnership and offered to show him around Somerset.

Today in Soap Opera History (March 16)

1971: DS' Bramwell was distraught over the prospect of losing
Daphne. 1984: RH's Maeve and Johnny received a donation
from the community.  1990: GH's Jerry and "Duke" shot each
other. 2001: OLTL's Blair slipped off the Palace Hotel roof.

"There is no present or future, only the past happening over and over again - now."
- Eugene O'Neill

"Today in Soap Opera History" is a collection of the most memorable, interesting and influential events in the history of scripted, serialized programs. From birthdays and anniversaries to scandals and controversies, every day this column celebrates the soap opera in American culture.

On this date in...

1942: Irna Phillips' radio soap opera THE GUIDING LIGHT returned to NBC Radio after being canceled by sponsor Procter & Gamble and last airing on December 26, 1941. Listeners sent over 75,000 letters in protest and the show was continued, this time sponsored by General Mills.

1970: On ANOTHER WORLD, Steve Frame (George Reinholt) flirted with Bernice Robinson (Janis Young) but she wanted to keep things strictly business between the two of them. Meanwhile, Rafe Carter (Phil Sterling) offered Sam Lucas (Jordan Charney) a junior partnership and offered to show him around Somerset.

Today in Soap Opera History (March 16)

On this date in...

1966: On ANOTHER WORLD, Katherine had to restrain herself from crying when Missy described her childhood and dragging around a blanket she called "Mama."

1970: On DARK SHADOWS, in Parallel Time, Julia and Elizabeth argued about whether or not a portrait should be hanging up. Julia got her way, and unveiled the portrait of Angelique for everyone to see. Elizabeth closed the door, trapping Barnabas on the outside.

1984: On GUIDING LIGHT, Phillip (Grant Aleksander) and Beth (Judi Evans) announced their engagement.

Paul Rauch Dead at 78

Former daytime executive turned legendary soap opera producer Paul Rauch died on December 10 in New York due to complications from blood clots.  He was 78.

Rauch served as vice president of CBS daytime programming in the early 1970s before leaving to take over as executive producer of ANOTHER WORLD (1971-1983). His partnership with head writer Harding Lemay (1972-1979) produced what is considered by many to be some of the best daytime soap opera in history. In our 2009 inteview with Lemay, he described Rauch as "one of the best producers, probably the best producer I have ever worked with."

He went on to produce ONE LIFE TO LIVE (1983 to 1991), SANTA BARBARA (1991-1993) and GUIDING LIGHT (1996-2002). His most recent work was as executive producer for THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS from 2008 to 2011.

WATCH: MEDIA PROBES ("Soap Operas")

In 1982 PBS aired an eight-part series, MEDIA PROBES, that examined the role and impact of mass communications. The series was designed in a slick magazine format that entertained and informed viewers about photography, soap operas, TV news, language, politics, design, sound and the future.

On April 28, 1982, ALL MY CHILDREN's Ruth Warrick hosted a look at the creative and productive processes of soap scenes and the unusual relationships that develop between viewers and their soaps.

The process begins in a barren rehearsal hal at 7 a.m. as ALL MY CHILDREN director Larry Auerbach leads Susan Lucci and Michael Minor through the scenes they'll be playing that day. Also examined are the unique relationship that exists between some 35 million viewers and their soaps. At a theme park in Memphis, documentary footage catches the passion when GENERAL HOSPITAL's Doug Sheehan plays a love scene with a fan. And soap writer Harding 'Pete' Lemay (ANOTHER WORLD, SEARCH FOR TOMORROW, GUIDING LIGHT) talks about the rigors of writing for the soaps.

Warrick notes that soaps are in the same tradition as the serial writing of Charles Dickens.

Watch the "Soap Operas" episode below:

Today in Soap Opera History (March 16)

On this date in...

1966: On ANOTHER WORLD, Katherine had to restrain herself from crying when Missy described her childhood and dragging around a blanket she called "Mama."

1970: On DARK SHADOWS, in Parallel Time, Julia and Elizabeth argued about whether or not a portrait should be hanging up. Julia got her way, and unveiled the portrait of Angelique for everyone to see. Elizabeth closed the door, trapping Barnabas on the outside.

1987: On DAYS OF OUR LIVES, Chris (Josh Taylor) questioned Adrienne's story about Duke.

WLS Interview Archive: Harding Lemay

I had the distinct honor and privilege of sitting down to talk with the legendary Harding Lemay last summer.  As We Love Soaps continues to countdown the 50 Greatest Soap Actresses Of All Time, I wanted to revisit the words of this brilliant and fascinating Emmy winning writer of ANOTHER WORLD.  Please take some time this weekend to catch up on our interview with this esteemed living legend.

Part One - Lemay shares how he began writing for ANOTHER WORLD, how the atrocities of World War II affected his writing, and his push to get the first gay character on the air in the mid-1970's.   
Part Two - Find out which actress helped Mr. Lemay learn how to write for soaps, which leading actress irritated him by reading lines off her sleeve cuffs, how he became known as "Mr. Why" and his unique experience working with Paul Rauch  
Part Three - Lemay shares his feelings on ANOTHER WORLD spinning the character of Iris off to TEXAS, his return to the show in 1988, and how network interference increased over time.
Part Four - The Emmy winning writer talks about the censored story he would have told on ANOTHER WORLD in 1988, his relationship with Jill Farren Phelps, and what he really thinks about the violent murder of Frankie Frame.
Part Five - Lemay shares perspective on ATWT's burning of the Purple Heart, Chris Engen's exit, and the role the internet has played in soap watching in recent years.

Harding Lemay Interview: Part Five

This is the final part of my interview with Harding Lemay. I wish every writer and executive were willing to consider his approach to storytelling, and how everyone wins when multi-generational stories are produced. Please read on to find out what he had to say about ATWT's burning of the Purple Heart, Chris Engen's exit, and the role the internet has played in soap watching in recent years. Thank you so much for reading!

We Love Soaps: In some ways, some shows have taken more risks in recent years. On AS THE WORLD TURNS, Luke Grimaldi has come out as gay and has a partner.
Harding Lemay: Wow, that’s a long switch from where I was.

We Love Soaps: Do you think you ever could have told a story like that?
Harding Lemay: I would have if they had let me.

We Love Soaps: So recently on AS THE WORLD TURNS, the character of Noah, explained that he psychologically needed to rid himself of his murderous father’s belongings. In the process of burning his father’s belongings, he burnt a Purple Heart on screen. This is creating a huge ruckus.
Harding Lemay: Oh I’ll bet.

We Love Soaps: Would you ever have a character do something like this?
Harding Lemay: I wouldn’t bother. [Laughs] I don't have any particular reverence for the Purple Heart. It’s a symbol, that’s all. I’m sure a lot of mean people have won them. And a lot of good people have too. It seems so odd that there would be a big ruckus about it anyway. It must be coming from the Religious Right or some basic off-right faction in the country. I don’t remember any controversy about anything we did, but then we didn’t get into any areas like that. I think people do more now.

Harding Lemay Interview: Part Four

In Part One, Part Two and Part Three of our interview with former ANOTHER WORLD head writer Harding Lemay, he spoke about how he landed the job writing for the soap, the problems he had with George Reinholt and Jacqueline Courtney, and his return to the soap in 1988. In Part Four he talks about the censored story he would have told on ANOTHER WORLD in 1988, his relationship with Jill Farren Phelps, and what he really thinks about the violent murder of Frankie Frame.

We Love Soaps: Why do you think after 20+ years of trying to cater to the younger generation, only to see ratings fall, that the networks still push for this?
Harding Lemay: There’s no explanation. One of the things I found very difficult about the network people was that they come from a different background. They come from business. They have no idea what goes into writing and what goes into character...or even what goes into life.

We Love Soaps: But even from a business perspective, your show was number one for much of the 1970’s. And the number one show now for the past 20 years has been THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS, which traditionally features multigenerational stories.
Harding Lemay: I’ve always been baffled by the network mind. But then, I’m baffled by the producer’s mind, and usually the director’s as well.

We Love Soaps: Do you remember the stories you wanted to tell when you returned to ANOTHER WORLD in 1988?
Harding Lemay: There was a story I wanted to tell, and we had almost cast it with, about a woman who was kidnapping young migrant children, and farming them out as laborers. And I had done a whole story on it. And she is discovered because someone gives a bath to a six-year-old child and realizes it’s not a dark-skinned child at all. He’s white. And they realize that this is a gang. And this is something I was very interested in. Etan Patz had been kidnapped in New York, and still hasn’t been found to this day. And they agreed to it, and then backed out. They said it was too, I forgot the words they used, not “sordid,” but “downbeat” and “too depressing." That people wouldn’t be interested in it. But it was really a long term story about missing children in Bay City.

Harding Lemay Interview: Part Three

In Part One and Part Two of our interview with former ANOTHER WORLD head writer Harding Lemay, he spoke about how he landed the job writing for the soap, how Constance Ford help teach him how to write for the genre, and the problems he had with George Reinholt and Jacqueline Courtney. He now shares his feelings on ANOTHER WORLD spinning the character of Iris off to TEXAS, his return to the show in 1988, and how network interference increased over time.

We Love Soaps: Do you keep in touch with people from your time on ANOTHER WORLD?
Harding Lemay: Well, Irene [Dailey] died last year. And Bevey [McKinsey], I kept in touch with Bevey. Vicky Wyndham I did for while. She’s apparently very happy, doing her sculpture, living up in the country.

We Love Soaps: Many of your colleagues have passed away in recent years. How are you doing with that?
Harding Lemay: Yeah, they were my age, or a little bit older. It’s sad. The big shock was Doug Watson many years ago. He was a very close friend, and also a wonderful actor. He was wonderful to write for.

Harding Lemay Interview: Part One

Meeting Harding Lemay surpassed my wildest dreams as a writer. This esteemed soap writing legend agreed to sit down and chat with me last week in his gorgeous Manhattan apartment. At 87-years-old, he is strong, healthy, and sharper than many 30-somethings I know! For the young ‘uns out there, Mr. Lemay took over head writing duties of ANOTHER WORLD in 1971 and stayed until 1979. He won an Emmy for Outstanding Writing for a Daytime Drama Series in 1975 (shared with Douglas Marland, among others), the show won Outstanding Drama Series in 1976. He kept the series near the top of the ratings for most of his run. Please join me in appreciating and celebrating the amazing mind and talents of Mr. Harding Lemay!

We Love Soaps: Mr. Lemay, what an honor to meet you. You are so esteemed in this community! Your years on ANOTHER WORLD are still talked about with such nostalgic and splendor. Did you ever think your work would still be celebrated 30 years later?
Harding Lemay: No, and I fell into this quite accidentally. I had written a memoir about my life. I grew up being one of 13 children, and I ran away to New York. I was living in a home for vagrant boys, then working as an actor, then the army, then in publishing. I got a call from Procter & Gamble asking me if I wanted to write for a soap. I said, “I’ve never seen a soap, I don’t know what they are.” They said, “we’ll pay you $1000 if you watch ANOTHER WORLD for a month and then have lunch with us.”

Harding Lemay: So I did. I didn’t like it, I thought it was dreadful. I thought it was ridiculous. But I watched a lot of other soaps because I didn’t want to just judge it by itself. And I didn’t like them either. [Laughs] I watched AS THE WORLD TURNS, GUIDING LIGHT and SEARCH FOR TOMORROW. When I had the lunch, it included a number of executives from P&G and the network. I criticized ANOTHER WORLD very harshly and said, “But it wasn’t the worst one I watched!” Then I went into the others, thinking I could get a better word in. I needed the work because I was flat broke. I savaged the other shows and the guy sitting next to me said, “I think I should tell you that we produce all those shows.” So I thought I lost the job. I had two kids in school, a house in Fire Island, and no money left. But they hired me. And years later I asked Bob Short [of P&G] “Why? I had nothing good to say about their soaps” And he said, “Well, we thought everybody else wanted you.”

I didn’t know how to do it So they hired Irna Phillips to tutor me. Now Irna Phillips was a terror. She was a bitter, spiteful old woman. We didn’t get on at all. In the first place I didn’t agree with what she was doing as a writer. She thought people were either saints or sinners, they were all good or all bad. And I thought they were a mixture. So she was always screaming at me on the phone that everything I was doing was wrong. But the ratings suddenly began to go up. So P&G decided to keep me on and let her go because I couldn’t work with her. And then we were the first show to expand to an hour. It was great fun to do. But I had never had any idea it was what they would call “The Golden Age” of soaps. The actors didn’t, I didn’t, and the producers didn’t. We were just doing it.